Transcript: Brendan Rogers From Founding WAG (NASDAQ: PET) to Investing in India

Host: Hey Brandon, uh, welcome to Startup Project. Thanks for coming on the show.

Guest: Thank you so much for having me. Really looking forward to being on the show. Thank you.

Host: Yeah. So just for the audience, uh, to give a little bit of background how we got connected, we got connected because of our mutual connection Martin, with whom I work on a daily basis for his fund, Inside VC.

Uh, and I think he's an LP in one of your funds, uh, which invest in India, and he's also an investor in like another five, uh, funds. And yeah, I think, uh, I'll forgot to do that. Um, but it's great to finally have you.

We've been scheduling this for a while. Uh, and, uh, I think you thought that timing was and you traveling to India quite often, uh, we're able to finally do this. So glad to have you on.

Guest: Yeah, thank you so much. Really getting, really looking forward to getting into it. Um, it's been a while in the making, so excited for it.

Host: Uh, so, uh, before we get started, like, can you talk a little bit about, uh, your background and, uh, sort of your earlier career?

Guest: Yeah, for sure. Um, so, first, uh, was a founder for 11 years. Um, but before that, I was like, I I usually start by saying that I was like an athlete, so I love being on teams, I love the camaraderie, the ups and downs.

So was a soccer player, uh, growing up and in college, and then I got the startup bug. And, uh, I started, uh, my first business in 2011, and it was in the online dating space.

Um, and just really loved being on a team again, uh, you know, going through the ups and downs, raising capital, etc. Um, that business, um, was, uh, we scaled that business, uh, and from 2011 to 2013.

And then, um, was acquired by IAC and then in 2014, moved down to Los Angeles and started a company called Wag, which was, uh, the Uber of dog walking. And now you can say it's the button on your phone for your paw.

So really owning the full stack of, uh, of your pet. Um, that business, uh, went public last year, and, um, you know, I started my India journey in late 2019. Um, I met, uh, gentleman by the name of Hershel Meta, uh, in 2019 by a mutual founder.

And he was investing through his family office in Indian and US companies. And, uh, he was telling me about his family's success in India, specifically his cousin, which was a, um, exited founder and really one of the the first Super Angels in India.

I like to call him like the Ron Conway of of India. Um, and in 2019, he started the largest pre-seed accelerator called 100x.vc.

So I was randomly asked to go to the demo day by Hershel, and I felt really special because I thought it was my only invite, but apparently he invited about 50 people, but I was the only guy that showed up.

Um, so that was kind of the start to the India journey and that's the the background of how I got into startups.

Host: Um, before getting into the India journey, can you talk a little bit about, you know, how Wag started and, you know, are you still walking with Wag or what what's your relationship with Wag right now?

Guest: Yeah, so, um, so first off, Wag was started because, um, there is a massive pain point, uh, within pet parents on getting their dog walked. Um, specifically in large Tier 1 US cities.

So obviously in LA, um, a lot of dogs are inside, uh, it's hot, there's a lot of traffic.

Um, and when you, you know, a lot of people wanted to stay out later with their friends or whatnot or be able to travel and, uh, sometimes their pet, it was just difficult to get somebody to to watch their pets.

So, um, saw this massive opportunity, um, around, at least from the beginning, from the supply side. So everybody in LA has side hustles.

It seems like everybody wants to be famous still in LA, but they're also very receptive of having these side jobs.

So it was a perfect kind of, uh, launch, uh, market from a supply perspective, and then a lot of people in Los Angeles also kind of prolong marriage and children, so a lot of they have pets.

So it was like a really awesome place to launch and, uh, really the idea was to provide a frictionless experience for pet parents, um, to have their their pet walked on a daily basis and have full transparency around the walk, etc.

Um, and, uh, now that business, you know, does many different services from sitting and boarding to veterinarian help, um, et cetera. Um, I'm not with the company. I, uh, I left in 2019. Um, I call myself they're one of their biggest cheerleaders.

Um, I, uh, I am a shareholder, a huge supporter of the business.

Um, so it was an absolutely phenomenal journey and the team now in in the in place at Wag is is doing an phenomenal job and I could not be more excited and support them from the sidelines.

Host: Um, so when did you decide to leave? And so when you decided to leave Wag, was it was the India opportunity the main reason or was it?

Guest: Um, so it it was it's interesting. I went to India, um, I went to India before, um, I left Wag, but, um, the India opportunity really came up about when I, I mean, I was at like a really big crossroads in my life.

Um, you know, I was in, I was in my 10th or 11th year in in the whole startup ecosystem and, um, was ready for like, you know, um, a new challenge and Wag, you know, got to a, a, you know, a point with a lot of employees and it was, you know, it was a it was a big business.

Um, so, um, I really love the earlier stages, um, specifically pre-seed seed. So, um, went to, India was like, you know, an opportunity to explore and be curious.

And I've always was like very fascinated around emerging markets, specifically India, because, you know, I look up to like people like Lee Fixel, um, you know, early investor in Flipkart, when he was at Tiger and people like that really like investing into India that were not from India, um, and saw the growth and stuff like that.

So I, um, I was always curious. So but when I came back from India, I knew that I had to be a part of the ecosystem in in some capacity.

Host: And you so how did the India journey start? And I know, you know, you mentioned Herschel, right? At the demo day of his brother's incubator, which is Sanjay Mehta, right? Um, and he's I think pretty popular in India as now with hundredX VC. Um, so how how did at what point did you decide to start a fund and sort of go all in and know on India?

Guest: Yeah, great question. So yes, so what my first trip was to the 100x demo day in 2019. Um, I, when I went to India for the first time, like just going to Mumbai was electric.

Um, you know, Mumbai to me, the hustle, the organized chaos, the people, it fueled it just like like lighted something inside of me to give me so much energy and I thought it was like, I was truly on a journey there.

And um, when I met these founders, I felt like I was in Palo Alto again, just like with their technical expertise, their passion, um, you know, and I've worked with lots of Indian engineers and product managers, etc.

I just really um, felt like I could feel the growth, I could feel the the just the energy inside of me.

And when I got back home to the States, I started like doing macro diligence just like on the market and started like just writing like a couple posts here and there around my India journey.

And that's when I, um, you know, started connecting with Indian founders and I remember, um, I don't think I've said this publicly online, but, um, the first the very, very, very, very first deal that I like diligenced and like spoke with the founder was a company called Ultrahuman, um, which at that point it was like a meditation app, but now it's like a wearables company and stuff like that and it's a pretty successful business.

But, you know, um, the founder, I believe his name is Mohit, Mohit Kumar reached out and like that was like super interesting to me and I think Nexus was leading the round and, um, I sent it to Hershel a few other people and they were like, wow, how are you getting access to these deals?

And I started like connecting with like really, um, you know, aspiring founders and successful founders.

And that really like when with the macro diligence, uh, that I was doing and understanding like the Gen Z population and in the the sheer size of the Gen Z population and, you know, India's digital stack and, you know, kind of Indians consuming more in Tier 1 and even now in Barat, like exponential consumption's happening and it all led to like just overall excitement, but also I had access.

I had access to like deal flow. And at that point I was just sending deals to relevant people in my network, like VCs, Angels, family offices. Like I was just giving, giving, giving. Um, and not expecting anything in return.

I just wanted to build my my name and my brand that I because I knew that sourcing at the early stages is everything. If you have proprietary access to sourcing, you're going to win.

Um, so that Ultrahuman deal really kind of unlocked, uh, some really interesting conversations and then I started reaching out to like founders that had crazy successful businesses and, you know, for an example like Kunal Ball, um, you know, used to work at Microsoft.

Um, you know, his story is, he's like one of my mentors.

Like I think that guy's absolutely amazing and has done a phenomenal job and I reached out to him and he got on the phone with me and we had an amazing, you know, conversation and, um, then the next person was a guy named Sahil Bruna, founder of Delivery, just today I think he announced he's profitable, went public last year.

Like I started getting access to these individuals where I was learning and I just wanted, I was just curious and whatnot.

So, um, that's kind of how it all started, uh, and with Hershel is that Hershel, I knew that Hershel has the analytical investing track record and background because he was like 40 companies in. I didn't have that track record.

Um, and I knew that if I partnered with someone like Hershel, I could start the race at like mile five instead of like mile one because of his cousin's proprietary access, the accelerator, the relationships he started and whatnot.

So that's kind of how it all began.

Host: Um, so then what is sort of like the operation of the fund? Uh, I guess you both collaborate with way and VC. Um, so what what is the fund size like? Um, whenever you're investing, were you investing primarily in pre-seed, seed? Uh, talk a little bit about like the fund dynamics.

Guest: Yeah, so fund one was 10 million, um, and we've deployed, uh, about 70% of it so far. Um, we're sector agnostic, pre-seed seed. We lead most of our deals. Um, we source probably 99% of our investments. Um, we average check size.

So we're in about 45 companies. Early on we wrote, you know, small checks, like 25K checks, whatever it is.

Um, but a lot of like we did a couple checks like that, but that was really around like getting into PR, getting access and just starting getting like putting like our numbers on the board.

Um, but then we soon comfortably, um, uh, on average started writing around like 250K checks. Um, and now it's like around that 300K mark. Um, we were targeting like 1 to 5% ownership.

Um, quickly realized that, you know, ownership obviously matters and hence, um, our second fund will be, um, you know, a $25 million fund, same strategy, but just coming to the table with a larger check, um, to get more ownership.

Um, so those are like the the the funds kind of like dynamics and then also like our LP base, are a lot of NRIs actually in Silicon Valley and in Seattle, etc. Um, obviously these individuals took massive risk coming to the US, did phenomenally well.

They want to be a part of the India journey now. Uh, you know, family offices, um, you know, we have GPs of other, uh, Silicon Valley funds, founders, um, board members of top tech companies, um, stuff like that.

Host: Um, so talk a little bit about the, you know, fund one companies. Like were there any breakout companies? I know it's sector agnostic, but you sort of lean into some sectors as you explore the market, right? Like what what what did you discover in terms of like which sectors are thriving or which ideas were thriving?

Guest: Yeah, so it's funny. So first deal was Ultrahuman that, uh, I sourced. The second deal was a company called Karanacart, which were two Stanford 19-year-old dropouts that moved back to India.

Um, and our fund wasn't up, um, at the time and and Hershel, uh, invested through the family.

Um, and, uh, obviously, you know, entry points in India are a lot different than entry points in Silicon Valley and that was another reason what drew me to the market.

But Hershel was able to be the first check in a company called Karanacart, which turned into a Zepto. Um, and that was the first unicorn of 2024, um, or 2023. No, 2024, I believe. They just got valued at 1.4 billion.

So that was like a massive, massive run up for for Hershel and that really solidified our relationship. But that showed us around sectors that food is something that is a massive, massive obviously market in India.

But not just like, you know, selling food, but like food tech, food logistics, um, and whatnot. So food is a category that we look at very heavily. Um, we also kind of during our findings is that we're very bullish on clothing.

So our, uh, one of our largest position is a company called Numi.asia, which is ultra fast fashion for women. It's the Shean of India.

Um, we led their pre-seed and, um, that company is on a rocket ship and there should be some really great positive PR, uh, on announcements coming out soon of that business. Um, so we think clothing is a massive sector, specifically Gen Z clothing.

We see companies like Zara and H&M that are just like really high price points and and we think that there's some great businesses solving that pain point and also, um, have more trendy skews and not just, you know, traditional ethnic wear and stuff like that.

So clothing is another space. Um, we also think like logistics is very, very interesting. Obviously, we have, um, these new trains everywhere coming in India. We have the uh industrial corridor.

We're building new train lines just for industrial products, stuff of that nature. So we think logistics is is going to be massive. Um, we've made some great bets in that space.

Uh, Import export is another, um, amazing business that our sector that we're really looking forward to.

We did a company called, um, Annu.trade, which is some early Flipkart guys that um are doing a kind of a marketplace for um companies outside of India to have access to Indian goods like Basmati Rice, sugar, etc.

Um, we also think that there's I'm very bullish on manufacturing.

Um, obviously, India's, you know, historically known as a very consumption heavy country, but as, um, you know, you have companies like Tesla and and um, uh, Apple now going into Bharat and partnering with these manufacturers, um, and upskilling these individuals in these Tier 2 to Tier 4 Indian cities.

We think that that's going to drive consumption, but also the upskilling of these individuals. So we're very bullish on manufacturing, um, on many different layers.

Um, and then lastly, I would say that, um, we are very bullish on like Barat in general. So like we did a company called Aptymart, which is basically it's the Oyo model where they turn Karanas uh into Aptymart.

So really handling the delivery, the logistics, supply chain and kind of back end, um, inventory management and stuff like that.

Um, and then lastly is, uh, so we do have a thesis where we we invest in SAS, but it's really around build in India sell into the US.

I think you have companies like like Freshworks, Zettworks, Zoho, amazing people are coming out of these businesses and and and building these amazing SAS companies that are selling into the US. So we definitely allocate into into that sector.

Um, and yeah, and then, you know, just specific India use case, uh, pain points that we obviously look at and then well lastly, lastly, the we I think that there is a massive opportunity around brands to launch in India that solve pain points that have super large tams where historically products have not really been innovated on in in so long and and that could be as easy as like shampoo.

Like if you go on Flipkart, if you go to if you buy shampoo, it's Herbal Essence and Pantene. There's no like brand that we're like like Indians like trust.

And I think that there's going to be more brands that solve massive that have massive tams where Indians can truly trust these these these brands and stuff like that. Um, so excited about those spaces.

Host: Yeah, I think you pretty much covered all the interesting sectors.

Uh, food is a lot interesting because I think people sort of, um, don't have an idea in the West the kind of, you know, food diversity that exists in India and with apps like Swiggy and Zomato, like what sort of like, you know, um, phenomenon it unleashed.

Like the amount of choice right now that is on Swiggy in India is like it's mind-blowing.

Like you can get any permutation combination of any, you know, variety of food, Italian mixed with Indian, you know, you pick your choice and you can, you know, take a combination up there, you'll find it on Swiggy.

Like that change that I've seen in last 10 years is pretty mind-blowing and also pretty unhealthy. So my bet, uh, if I have to pick public stocks in India, I would pick, you know, uh, diabetes, type two diabetes is my next 10 year winner.

Because we are seeing a revolution in consumption and the choice is like insane at such a cheap price. Uh, whenever I visit India, that's I mean it still blows my mind.

I want to choice you get with Swiggy and Zomato in terms of like even if you're or whatever eater you are, like you have it. Right. The choice is is like incredible.

Um, I I don't think people who order on Food Dash or Uber Eats can even like imagine what that is. Right. Um, but, uh, you know, in terms of sectors, uh, you talk about DTC.

Uh, or you didn't call it DTC, but I think we call it as brands and I can sort of attest to that is because all the brands, the consumer brands are I think 90s brands.

Uh, that's sort of established their brands and trust in the 90s and we have, I think, what 600 to 800 million people who were born after 90s, right?

And you have to sort of create new brands for them and in 90s there were no choices uh for consumers and consumers obviously didn't have money and there was no consumption uh at a scale that we have right now.

So it's sort of created this new opportunity for brand innovation and product innovation in consumer sector that was not there before.

I think that I'm pretty bullish and I've invested in DTC companies uh in India for that reason because there was no choice previously and people were trusting the big, the big brands, you know, whatever they're launching and now the consumer is sort of more aware of what he's putting those ingredients and they want better ingredients.

So there's a whole spectrum of thing. Um, so you mentioned I think before we starting out call, or you mentioned on the call, you're starting a new fund, right? So are you changing your thesis? What are the learnings from the first fund?

Um, what are you planning to do differently?

Guest: Yeah, great question. Um, so we, uh, not changing the thesis. So really it's the learning, the biggest learning was ownership.

Um, I think that, um, ownership really does matter and also doubling down in your winners, um, and investing as much as humanly possible in your winners. Um, those are definitely the learnings.

Um, good learnings and I think we've done a good job with that, but I think that there's always room for growth. Um, but yeah, fund two will be the same exact thesis.

It's just really coming to the table with more ownership or with a bigger check to have more ownership. So we like to call ourselves like the eyes and ears of Silicon Valley for for India.

Um, there's a lot of funds in the US that are in that like 50 to $300, $400 million range that have a global thesis, but want a little bit of exposure to India, they're just not going to do any of the heavy lifting, which is totally normal and makes sense.

But again, we source 99% of our deals. So when, you know, when we share deals with our friends, like, yeah, we want them to invest etc. but like we also want to like have large ownership.

So, um, that is something that, um, you know, we we've learned and fund two will be able to execute on that. Um, but yeah, no, same exact strategy, same sectors.

Um, we'll probably have a little bit less companies in the portfolio, probably around the like 30 to 40 mark. Um, but yeah.

Host: Uh, talk a little bit about, you know, how is the venture ecosystem right now in India?

Um, I mean, there was certainly, because I was close getting from 2017, there was certainly, I think, we peaked at 2021, I would like to say, uh, both in terms of like valuations and number of people who are investing.

It sort of I think aligns with what was happening globally. Uh, where do you see right now in the venture ecosystem in India? Uh, where is it thriving? Where is it lagging? Do you see any gaps? late stage, early stage, mid stage?

Uh, what's your overall view in terms of just, you know, venture ecosystem?

Guest: Yeah, so, um, I entered India in 2021, really in terms of like writing large, like larger checks. Um, 2020, 2021, that's obviously was the top of the market, at least for this cycle or or that cycle.

Um, so when I first entered, it was all craziness. It was, uh, you know, YC doing all this India stuff, which is great. We've done a ton of companies that went through YC. We invest before YC. Um, and I think YC is phenomenal.

Um, I do think that, I think they pulled back on on their total investments in India and founders are still excited about YC.

Um, so we saw a lot of companies where they didn't might not have had that much traction, but the founders had really good backgrounds.

Um, so, um, they were able to raise quickly and I don't think a lot of these companies should have raised the money that they had. So I think it was just really frothy the market and you could capital was really cheap.

Um, I think now just the overall sentiment is the bar is a lot higher. There's a lot of funds with dry powder, but there's a lot less deals happening. Um, and, uh, I think that's that's definitely good and bad. So I think that's the sentiment.

I think that, um, the funds like the Tier 1s are not as doing as much seed anymore as they were.

I think they're kind of more relying on A and Bs and focusing on their winners and dumping more into the winners, which is great for funds like mine because there's more of a blue ocean and, you know, um, one thing that I I will say is that one thing that's helped us is that we build and have maintained and consistently have built strong relationships with the Tier 1s in India and we have weekly and monthly calls with these general partners because it's good to build that relationship from a deal flow perspective, to sharing deals, to having them obviously invest in your businesses, etc.

Um, so, uh, that's something that we've really doubled down on and there's so many great funds that we work with and great partners. Um, so I think that is the sentiment, um, on the investing side.

I think on the founder side, sentiment is like the founders it's it's hard for founders. It's it's uh, it's not easy to get a check like it once was a couple years ago.

And I think that, um, it's it it that's actually a really good thing because it allows founders to really understand pain points and speak to their early customers and really truly build businesses that are that are just solving massive uh massive pain points.

Like I said, um, I also think that there's a lot of tourist investors that came to India that have now left.

Um, and I think that's another thing that's good for for our fund, but also like a lot of that that capital that came into India was like not really value add capital.

It was more so like, hey, this market's super hot, let's just throw money at it and see what happens. Um, and we have a rule within our fund where if there's no if there's not an Indian angel or fund on the cap table, I won't invest.

So if it's just like me and a US fund, I won't do the like I won't do the deal. Um, because I need local expertise and local knowledge. Um, that's something that we have close. So, um, yeah, so I think the sentiment is growing though.

Um, however, like I do think that markets are turning.

I do think that what it's sad and good at the same time with the there's been a lot of layoffs in the last like 12 to 18 months where I think that's allowed founders to to build and like a lot of these founders like that worked at these companies like Unacademy, Swiggys, like all these companies, if they did were to get laid off for whatever reason, they've seen what these companies kind of take to get to zero to one and beyond and they may have some equity where they're like, wow, this could actually turn into like real money.

Then they've tasted it. I think it's been a lot of really new, like a lot of more kind of visionary type founders that are now wanting to build their own dreams and build their product and stuff like that. There's a lot more deal flow.

Um, so I think that's the overall sentiment right now.

Um, and then to answer your question around late stage, I do think that there's like a I think there's a series there may be a series A crunch happening more and more in India where you had this huge run up of seed and then they're not going to be able to raise A's.

And I think that there's a lot of bloated funds in in India or just like have India focused that have too much capital and it's going to be really hard to create like like true alpha and really multiply the fund. So I think staying lean and mean.

Granted where the market is right now is where you're really going to get those multi really multiply the fund. Um, and I think late stage India, we're now seeing the IPO market like opening up more and I think that that's going to continuously grow.

But a lot of these late stage funds, they don't they're not doing that many deals. There's not that many deals out there and I think it goes back to like there's founders that are like not wanting to raise down rounds. They want to hold on to equity.

Um, so I think these the late stage India right now, um, you know, I think that that's going to take some time and I think the secondary market in India is super hot, um, as well. So, yeah, I think that's the overall sentiment.

Host: Interesting. Um, you you mentioned Y combinator, um, name companies. One other things I noticed when 2021, 2022 at all Indian companies, I think that was the highest Indian companies per batch in YC.

Um, and because YC does, you know, pre-seed, uh YC was equating an Indian company with a US company valuation.

So what we ended up with was we had Indian companies with bloated valuation, which makes it really tough to do a seed because technically what valuation YC was doing for an Indian company at pre-seed was probably a seed or sometimes series A valuation if you actually look at traditionally Indian companies that is, you know, working towards an Indian market.

So this you know, this imbalance sort of is now uh um is appearing in the market and these are the ones that can't raise next round because it's too costly for a seed investor to come in.

So now they have to really go into like CDC or series B to raise the next round. Uh, I think which is making really tough for those uh companies to scale.

Um, uh, who are the other uh sort of investors, pre-seed investors uh that you follow and admire uh in Indian ecosystem?

Guest: Yeah, I mean first and foremost Kunal Ball from Titan. We've done probably nine or 10 deals with him. Absolutely phenomenal man. Um, I've never met Rohit yet. I heard he's a phenomenal individual as well. I would love to meet him.

Um, the way so Kunal invited me to Snap Deal and Gurgaon two years ago, a year ago. And when I met Kunal, his office his desk is in the middle of all the employees.

He he is like he is so he is such a founder and his the culture he's created is just is absolutely amazing and that is somebody that I look up to in the ecosystem where like as a founder, as a as an investor, like he is he is Tier 1 man.

Like I cannot I cannot share more about him. So he's someone that I really look up to and he's hired some great individuals as well. Um, so Titan is somebody that I I consistently look up to.

Um, I would probably say he's like the main one that that I look up to. Um, you know, there's other um there's other funds that like I work really closely with. So I love Light I speak with um Lightspeed a lot.

There's a lot of great partners at Lightspeed.

Um, uh obviously, you know, like you know, Haman and and Dev Curry at Lightspeed, um, Nexus, uh, huge fans of Nexus, the Padar, um, you know, uh, Excel, like, you know, Anna Daniel sits on, um, a couple of the boards that uh that the companies that we've invested in.

He's phenomenal. Um, these are funds that are are very close to us.

Um, as well and then obviously like the the international funds that really love India as well too, like the Tigers of the world, the Additions of the world, um, which are a great, great funds as well.

Um, but at pre-seed, yeah, I would probably say Kunal. Um, there's a lot of angels too. Um, you know, you have, you have like um for an example, like Arjun Veria, um, I just met him in person for the very first time.

He's knows the DTC space very, very, very well in the in brands and understands trends and like he's made some great investments.

So having people in my network like him, um, you know, I was I met a gentleman named Suji Kumar last month, the founder of Udan, um, first employee at Flipkart. This guy knows supply chain, he knows manufacturing, logistics.

Um, obviously he's a big angel and, you know, has a great, you know, family office etc. Um, so there's a lot of folks that um that we lean on for just like local kind of diligence and advice.

Um, there's another guy named Raghav Ball, which uh he's a really good friend of ours.

He um was uh, you know, he was heading uh, you know, Alibaba India and um was early at uh Besimer and I think he like source Swiggy in 2014 or 15 and, you know, big big basket and just really, really, really smart individual people that have had that 15 to 20 year journey in India that know a million times more than me about the India ecosystem and those are people that we build relationships with, we maintain relationships with, we try to provide as much value as humanly possible to these individuals, um, because we know that they're industry experts and, you know, another gentleman that, um, I just became, you know, really close with that I really truly admire is a guy named Manoj Coley.

Um, he was the CEO of Airtel for 14 years and then he was the head of Softbank India. And um, you know, he we have wonderful conversations of, um, about the future of India.

We go over reports that like, you know, Bane and Goldman Sachs and EY create that we discuss like trends and stuff like that and what we believe the sectors that will really, you know, grow and be large in India.

So these are all people that like have accepted me and have given me an opportunity and give me their precious time that I could not be more grateful for. So, um those are those are the folks that we really kind of, uh, keep close in our network.

Host: All right, amazing. So I think that's a good note, uh, to end the podcast and where can our audience and anyone that's uh, that's listen follow you at?

Guest: Yeah, so LinkedIn. Uh, LinkedIn is the the platform, so it's just Brandon Rogers. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn. And, um, I really appreciate everyone listening and excited to share this on LinkedIn. So, um, be stay tuned for the the episode and thank you so much for allowing me to be on your podcast. I really do appreciate it. Thank you.

Host: Thanks Brandon, thanks for coming on the show.

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