Transcript: Harvey Multani: Founder RUV Alliance & Miami100 DAO

Host: This episode of Start Project is brought to you by Bear dot tax. Bear dot tax compiles all your crypto transactions and makes it easy for you to file your taxes. Check out beartax. that is Br.tx.beartax. Hey, Harry, welcome to the show.

Guest: Hey, Natraj, thanks for having me here.

Uh so I think a good place to start our conversation, uh you know, I want to talk about RV Alliance and things that you're doing up with it, but before that, can you give a quick overview of what, you know, your career has been till now? Absolutely.

I started my career in uh Fintech. Uh I started my career at a company called Adapar uh back in uh 2011.

Uh so when I joined it was around series A, they had right around then closed their series A, I believe. and what they did was build software for wealth managers and family offices.

So, if you were managing a large pool of other people's money or your own money, uh you essentially have a lot of uh different workflows there where you tend to have your assets at different banks, brokers, uh custodians and you tend to need market data to value those things.

So it's a huge data aggregation problem which is what my focus was and then uh you have to do enrichment and analytics and reporting and all the other workflows.

Uh so I was there uh about mid 2011 to early 2013, I believe and uh worked mostly on the data financial data aggregation side. And from there I uh left to start my own startup in the core banking technology space.

So, where our vision was at the time was to build uh a brand new core banking platform.

Uh we we had a couple of different other entry ways into that uh grand vision, but it was that um all these banks that are running on, you know, 50-year old systems uh with very extremely the most legacy of legacy um vendors you can imagine.

Uh we wanted to build something new that would enable banking to be radically more efficient and improve financial access for everyone. So you can imagine this is an insanely hard segment to sell into, lot of career risk on the buying side.

So, um, while we did actually find a few banks to partner with who were very open to uh working with us and uh building really cool things.

We could not, we didn't really see a way to scale it in a meaningful way uh that would not really turn us into mostly a professional services firm.

So, um, I left uh that startup uh around uh late 2014. from there I joined uh Coinbase on the uh institutional Bisdev side.

So my mandate was essentially make the transactions uh make the amount of uh people buying Bitcoin go up and ideally institutions who have large pockets.

And so worked on everything from merchant payments to marketplace payouts to um family offices, trading platforms and eventually what it came down to was uh launching a Bitcoin ETF.

And um sort of towards the end of my tenure at Coinbase or towards later part of my tenure, I realized that uh launching a Bitcoin ETF was going to be a five to six year long process at minimum and I think uh, you know, now that we are five to six years uh later from 2015 and the fact that it still hasn't launched, it's evidence of that.

So uh I realized that I didn't want to be in a role that had a lot of like legal and market risk. So from there I joined uh Pd right around the series A and uh on the go to market side.

So helped a lot of the sales processes, playbooks, tools, um go to market strategies and things like that. worked with a really great team of people and uh I was there until about early 2017.

From there I left and decided I've always had this itch to do um to be an engineer. So I decided to like give that my full-time focus. And so left, did a coding boot camp, did the engineering side.

Um briefly took on some roles but then realized uh that, you know, at the end of the day W2 employment was just no longer for me. So I uh just I also been doing a bunch of angel investing uh while especially it started while I was at Pd.

And uh since then, I'd been sort of just thinking about how do we make founders richer?

How do we make startup employees richer and essentially help improve this ecosystem and make sure that more the people who are doing the work on the ground, the selling, the making, the founding um are capturing more of the upside.

And so that led me down an interesting direction uh which eventually led to uh the RV Alliance.

So that's a good way to uh you know, good segue for RV Alliance, but I want to step back and it looks like in terms of your career steps, you always join the series A startup or a startup or a series A startup.

Was that your perspective when you're making that decision? You know, I'd never thought about it uh when I was making the decisions initially in terms of stage uh but uh you're right, that is absolutely a pattern. It tends to be in the series A.

Uh like I think Coinbase was maybe series B or C when I joined, but it was still extremely early at that time. And uh I just I love roles, I love companies where uh there is a lot of open space.

Like I'm on those people, I'm very good at writing playbooks and checklist. I am not so good at executing playbooks and checklist other people have written. So let's talk about RV Alliance.

So uh you are angel investing and uh how did, you know, RV Alliance come about because RVs I mean uh for those who are listening and don't know about it, are roll up vehicles that you know, Angel list created and these were primary relief to help startup founders, right? to raise money from their friends and family. uh but you've taken it to another extreme level, I felt uh after, you know, you know, being part of RV Alliance for a while.

Uh so talk to me about that journey. like when you figured out you wanted to do something uh in investing space, did you evaluate other options uh before actually you know, looking at RVs? Yeah, absolutely.

I uh creating the RV Alliance was sort of my uh choice of last resort.

I had explored lots of other options and um and how the Alliance actually came together is a is a true like startup, you know, it started with a throwaway tweet and uh then it exploded into this uh, you know, 1300 member community.

But I'm happy to take you through sort of the details of how this began. So I actually made my first angel investment when I was at Pd.

I um how it started and really I feel like the advice that's given to founders uh in terms of build something to solve your own problem is also actually really good advice for investors. And how and so to give you an example of that.

When I was at Pd, one of the biggest issues we had was how do we allocate our time efficiently because as everyone knows hiring and startups is extremely hard. and so we had um, you know, very few people to do what is now you to do what was frankly like probably 10 times as many people's jobs.

Uh, which is, you know, that's that's the case at any rapidly growing startup. And so I realized that the limiting factor for us was not money but time. And so uh I I was thinking how do we figure out how much a deal costs us in terms of time?

So I uh leaned into that and I realized that the at that time, sales force and all these tools would show you the outcome metrics of like how many deals you close, how much revenue you generated, but it wouldn't really show you how many how much time that deal costs because that's just generally not how, you know, large companies think of things.

So, I tried to actually start building my own tool to track my time as a sales salesperson, like how many minutes per meeting, how many emails, things like that. realized that this was actually a gigantic problem and uh was not something I was going to solve while also working 80 hours a week at a series A startup.

So I was lamenting about this issue at uh at lunch one day and one of my colleagues mentioned that he knew somebody who was working on this problem. Uh so he connected me with that founder. Uh the tool was exactly what I had in mind of what we needed.

We started deploying it and it was the best example, best analogy is like it it was like having, it was like being the only party in World War II to have radar.

Like you just could do things that just look like magic and we were able to operate in a at a speed and velocity that was, you know, unthinkable to me prior. So, uh I insisted on investing. I met the team. I was just like, I have to be able to invest.

I invested in the company and that was actually my first angel investment and it turned into a unicorn in less than a few years. And so I um sort of started kept investing uh down that flow. Which company is this? Uh this is people AI. Oh, people AI.

I'm an investor in people AI as well. Oh, phenomenal. small world. Uh great great choice by the way. Uh so yeah, so how did that lead to uh RV Alliance?

Yeah, so I continued Angel investing um you know, just directly and then I kind of so what I realized was it was very frustrating to Angel invest.

I mean you first you have to reach out to the founder and you have to build a relationship and then you have to exchange safe docs and then there's this whole like song and dance and at the end of the day like I'm a bit of an introvert, which is ironic considering I've always been in like Bisdev and go to market roles, but like I I never want to take a meeting that I don't have absolutely have to take.

So I started uh at that time thinking, you know what? I might just be okay with paying carry on Angel list um because it's like an e-commerce like experience.

Like I can see a deal, I can click invest and I can go about my day. because all I want to do is pick securities that go up 100 X.

That's Like if they do other things that's cool and we help the world, that's great, but at the end of the day I'm I'm in this business to make money.

So, I started doing that and then I also realized, you know, these a lot of these companies that I'm like having to pay carry for, I'm seeing them anyway.

Like I'm I'm like running into them as part of my daily life, you know, friends, founders, things like that. So that was happening. And then there was another thread which was I um so while I was doing that and I still had to go after direct deals.

I kept getting muscled out of deals because I was just I'm a nobody, you know, at that time I'm I mean even now I'm still a nobody.

But like like I you know, I just was like a person writing five, 10k checks, you know, the occasional hundred um into like uh but I I I didn't have a brand name. I didn't really want to have like, you know, a brand name.

I didn't really want to raise a fund etc. but I just wanted to get into the deals I want to get into. So, what I uh so this this started bothering me is I started getting muscled out of deals.

So then a third thing happened, which is I got the opportunity to co-lead an SPV into a later stage company. Um uh can't can't share the name I think, but um I got a chance to lead to up.

It was a great experience the team we worked with, but what ended up happening was we were so successful in how much we raised that we actually um had to we actually um uh we were so successful in how much we raised uh and simultaneously a lot of other folks were interested in that same deal and for, you know, logistical reasons etc. we got muscled out of it.

So we actually had to start returning money to um but to LPs. So that kind of um also set me on a way which is like I'm on those people like I cannot stand to not have the most leverage in the room. So that started bugging me.

Like I'm just like I I got to have control over things.

So I started thinking and at the same and so along with that thread, I was talking with a lot of friends who were joining startups and helping them negotiate their equity and so in some cases helping them get like seven figures more, you know, like I'm sure in some cases now it's turning into like eight figures more in equity upside.

But we always ran into this issue where uh where like they couldn't really get more beyond a certain point uh because they were negotiating for options and common shares.

And so there's these four threads were running simultaneously. or these handful threads were running simultaneously and they kept bugging me.

And so what so what what what I started before the RV Alliance, which is what led to the RV Alliance is this concept called employee led SPVs. So what I realized was, what do founders raise money for? They raise money to hire people.

What's the thing that sucks when you hire people is when they leave. So what if you could make it easier to hire people and you could uh keep employees from leaving and you could boost an employee equity employees' equity upside.

So how would you do that? So what I realized was what if I go to employees at startups, existing or current existing or future?

And I say, hey, together, let's go negotiate for an allocation in the startup you're join you uh you work at and I'll help you fill it and on the fundraising side and we'll split the carry 50/50.

So that's how so that was the initial thing I was working on for pretty much mid 2019 to um early 2021. If uh I'll stop there if there's any questions or thoughts.

So initially your idea was to do a regular SPV but you know, have a carry share and basically convincing the employees to invest and partner create and then, you know, expanding through your network to fill the rest of the SPV's commitment.

Uh so that was your initial strategy, right? Exactly. And um and so we we ran a few times and it worked phenomenally. I mean the numbers are unbelievable.

Like I think we did a 4X DPI, a 4X distribution to paid in capital within a year and a half, which is unthinkable. Um I mean so but the issue there was, it was a couple things.

One, it it runs into all the same issues uh companies who are doing secondaries have where you have to find an employee first.

You have to find an existing hold, you know, person, then you have to convince the CEO and then you have to like source capital. So, uh so so one was just finding the employees who were willing to do this was very hard. I tried everything.

I tried cold emailing like every employee at like every series A and B startup. I mean there are a lot of people uh, you know, who who work at startups who have my email in their inbox right now.

And so so I was able to find a few folks who were willing to to do this and we then then convincing the CEOs was actually pretty easy. Like once they once they understood what the mechanics were, they were completely, you know, for this.

And then the third part was raising the capital. Now this is where I got surprised. I thought this would be really hard.

So the first employee who did this, um, that person, I thought, okay, you know, we'll raise like, you know, mid six figures etc. like it'll probably be, you know, like take take a week and go try with your own network.

If you only get like 10% of the way, that's fine. Um and I'll I'll take care of the rest. Like I'll back stop it. Within 48 hours completely massively oversubscribed because, you know, I think most LPs realize what an obscenely good deal this is.

It's like, oh, I can I'm paying carry, but the person I'm paying carry to is basically working on the company full time, making my investment go up and they have common shares. Um it's like the company has paid for the GP commit.

It's it's it's just the incentive alignment is so crazy. So, uh and every employee that I worked with started having that, you know, level of success. Like it really took like no work. Like they within within 24 hours.

Oh, are these part of an existing fundraising round or uh is is it just, you know, a middle of nowhere uh equity round for the company? Uh so both.

Uh so in the case of an existing fundraising round, we would just say give us the same terms you're already doing, which was easy.

Uh where we actually what was really surprising to me uh was when we started doing off cycle raises where essentially we would approach the company and say, uh, can you give us an uncapped safe at 20% discount?

And you know, for them that's like why not? That's basically raising their next round. It's like a dollar for dollar reduction almost uh with that slight discount. So they would just say, yeah, sure.

So they would issue us the safe and then, you know, I again, I thought this would be really hard to raise for and employees within 24 hours we're just smashing like, you know, $500,000 raises. Um, and so two things occurred to me.

One, once I've shown an employee how to do this, there's no real reason for them to keep me on for the next deal.

So like all this like customer acquisition cost I spent to acquire this employee is is gone because and I'm not saying most I'm not saying the employees did this, but like it's what I would do, you know, like uh and that's what the and to me like the incentives are everything.

I don't I don't believe in ideals. I'm just I just look at incentives. So I'm like, the incentive is for them to cut me out.

And then two, uh we started talking to CEOs and they started thinking, they started asking this very interesting question which is, um, how, how could I do this for all my employees?

And that started leaning down a very interesting thread which I realized also implied that once we taught employ CEO how to do this, why would they need me anymore? And so that was happening.

And then the third thing that happened was I started talking to some of my portfolio company CEOs and a couple other people and I started noticing this very interesting trend that people were doing, which is they didn't want to deal with 50 angels.

Uh they wanted to bring in all these operators as investors, but they didn't want to deal with that. So they would like set up their own SPV uh and then they would just wave the carry and then, you know, pass through the fees.

And the moment I started seeing that and I reasoned through what that entaled, I was like, well, you know, this this whole business I'm doing is over and we'll never come back, but this whole new thing is the future.

And like in in the and the reason why, and I happy to go into this in a second is that there is a lot of it's tempting to see RVs, of these roll up vehicles as an administrative tool, but that's actually not what they are. It there is strategic tool.

And um, and so that's kind of where like my head exploded. And that's an interesting parallel between RVs and you know, now suddenly popular term called Dos, right?

Because the mechanics are pretty similar. like if whenever people talk about Dow, my mind goes to two things. one is RVs and the other one is equity crowd funding, right?

If you make it so easy to raise capital like which is RV essentially, um it it almost mimics the dynamics of a Dow, right? Because in RV case you almost start taking pre commitments for the startups that you're interested in, right?

In your Discord uh server you're taking pre commitments for a startup which I don't know if you are you do that after initiation or before initiation and I'm assuming it's before you're initiating any call with the founder or not.

Um, but it almost similar to the dynamics of, you know, how a Dow uh generates uh, you know, crowd investment uh into a company, uh you're almost generating distribution first and then creating a company.

Um and there's also the effect of democratization of access. Um, and there's ease of process that is there. Uh I don't think Dos in a sense like are aiming to be all these, but there are some instruments which are already these.

Um, and we can go into Dos uh, you know, in a bit, but um so once you decided, you know, RVs are the next big thing, uh, how do you see this, you know, different from, you know, if you do an SPV, right? Um you're getting an additional carry, right?

That's your advantage because you're doing all this work, you know, you as Harry is getting extra 10% or 20% carry on whatever SPV that you're closing. Uh then how did you shift your uh just in terms because you talked about leverage.

How did that leverage change for you when you started, you know, doing these through RVs? It's a great question and it's there's a lot of interesting moving pieces there. So when uh so it's a couple things.

One is with RVs, we operate a little differently than most investor communities. And this is a thing in that we do not work for the founders. The founders are not our customers.

Uh it seems like it and every investor community etc will say, oh we you know, we put the founders first. We absolutely do not. Like that's not that is not our goal. Our goal is to make investors rich.

Uh and so the way and so that actually leads to some very interesting things, which is one, so there are a lot of investor communities out there where you can submit a deal etc and uh like it's it's very it's very supply push.

Like the founder is pushing the deal to investors. We allow for that functionality, but frankly it's not the highest priority. That's not really where our value add is.

It's it's kind of like more of uh it's like uh it helps us in case we get positively surprised, which which definitely happens.

Like sometimes companies come in and we're and I'm like, wow, I would have never seen this company and the and the community loves it. But where we specialize is in uh demand pull.

So what that means is we aggregate commits uh as you said, and then we actually approach the founders and which is which is actually the reverse of how RVs are traditionally where like uh doctrinally designed to be used.

So if you look at the RV providers today or anyone who's equivalent, they pitch this sort of as an administrative tool, which is, okay, hey, you're a founder, you've got yourself a lead, you know, you got your terms, you got like 50 angels you want to bring in.

You don't want to deal with paperwork, that's fine. So you can do that and that is a completely valid way to use RVs. But there's a strategic change, what RVs actually are is a strategic change in the landscape.

It's kind of like it's kind of like having a car in World War I and then suddenly realizing, wait a minute, what if I put armor on the car, a gun on the car and then I put tracks on the car and all of a sudden you've changed the entire nature of warfare.

You've taken three things that already exist and you've just combined them in a unique way. So what we realize with RVs is that one, what if you reverse the process instead of the founder creating the RV and then reaching out to investors.

What if the investors effectively create the RV and then reach out to the founder?

And all of a sudden you change everything because one, the those investors are actually willing to pay a higher valuation because the cost is the same to them uh versus going through a syndicate.

So they're willing to pay basically up to a certain point, um, but it's higher than whatever an SPV lead or fund lead would pay because they don't have that 20% hurdle or that 2 and 20 hurdle to go over.

Uh two, we proxy our voting rights to the founder, which is, I mean as a founder, like that's like the dream, which is you can raise more money and never lose control of your company. Like who would not take that?

Uh and three, RVs are actually more liquid than company stock. Uh so RV interests. And so you can actually sell an RV interest. I mean the mechanics of this are still being worked out as we speak.

But uh let's just say I've done something very similar to this and uh it was very smooth. And so it's much easier to sell RV interest than it is to actually sell shares in an individual company.

So you get a liquidity improvement, you get a corporate governance improvement relative to the founder and you get a valuation improvement.

And so we realized the the thing that's keeping blocking founders is that um like if you uh actually if you take an SP, here's a better way to think about it. If you take an SPV lead and you unbundle what that SPV lead is actually doing.

So what are they doing? One, they're sourcing a deal. Two, they are spinning up a vehicle. Three, they have a mailing list of investors that they send the deal out to.

So, now that RVs founders can create their own RV, great. you know, they've set up their own, they've set up their own vehicle. Um sourcing the deal, I mean companies are pretty easy to find these days.

I mean in terms of the ones who are interesting. uh and then uh then it's us the investor network. And so we realized what if we provide the investor network basically as a service effectively.

So you the founder can just submit your deal and you know, next thing you know you're in front of 13 100 plus accredit investors, all of whom are like, you know, top tier operating experience.

So um that's sort of like how we've been thinking about it strategically and we realized that this actually changes the entire dynamics of the fundraising landscape. What has been the response from the founders?

Um uh and there's an additional factor when RV Alliance came up, right? It came up in pandemic when fundraising essentially suddenly became global.

Uh and I see Indian companies raising from US investors and vice versa like it's now everyone is every investment is up for grabs, right? Because any investor sitting anywhere can do, you know, due diligence.

So it's no longer, you know, differentiated in terms of geography or thesis or I mean maybe thesis but that's your own mental uh model for it, but every investment in every country, in every sector is basically up for grabs.

So you also came up at a time where this is happening simultaneously, which made um sort of founders probably more receptive to the idea as well, right? Absolutely. So the macro factors you described 100%.

One is the comfort with like taking capital from people you've never met, which is uh or people you've never even had a zoom call with or a phone call with.

For example, one of our first deals was into an Indian company uh and we raised over 300,000 uh for that company within 48 hours from 60 LPs from all over the world, not a single meeting phone call or Zoom.

I mean, unheard of like five years ago to do something like this.

And so yeah, we're we're standing on a huge stack of like giants and people who've built uh this amazing process and you know, we've had companies from Pakistan, from Mexico, from all over and yeah, the democratization is uh it was not initially what I thought uh this would become, but um that's uh I'm very happy to see that that's the direction it's gone.

Your deal flow on RV Alliance is almost extreme, I would say. Like the number of deals I see uh as part of RV Alliance is like really high.

How are you able to generate such, you know, large amount of deal for like uh is is this mostly you reaching out or is this you know, members of RV Alliance reaching out. uh what is the process behind the since process that is happening which is generating such incredible deal for both in quality and quantity.

It's a great question. it's mostly the strength of the it's the strength of the community really.

Uh I would say 99% of the deals that come in, I have I all that like happens is like I I find out about the deal the same time everybody else does in that I get the email notification. I hit submit and it gets sent out to the group.

And so it's mostly the community talking about this. this sort of goes back to the um initial question you had about how do founders see this?

And so uh to go into that uh is that founders, the initial reaction of every founder is disbelief. 100%. 99% of my burden when speaking to founders is just like they'll like is just explaining to them how they will not get screwed by working with us.

It sounds crazy but like it's the deal is too good uh frankly. and like frankly if we made the deal a little worse, it might actually make it ironically easier to sell to the founders.

So uh one is that and then so a lot of founders once they do a uh a deal through us, they refer everyone uh they know to us and that's like why we've been I think at this, we just published our hundredth deal uh actually yesterday.

And I calculated we were founded on July 2nd of uh 2021. So that means on average we have been publishing a deal every 48 hours to our members.

Have you gotten any feedback from people who are already running, you know, syndicates and other SPVs and have a model, you know, with higher leverage, right?

You know, uh we have now larger syndicates with 3,000, 5,000 accredit investors and you you are in a sort of ways uh competing with them for deal flow.

Um what was the dynamic uh, you know, with syndicate leads or other micro funds or you know, solo GPs. Uh how was that, you know, uh dynamic been? You know, it's been very collaborative and collegial.

Uh, you know, it's initially I had framed a lot of our framing as like, yeah, we're against, you know, the carry industrial complex and all that. But really fundamentally it's actually it's a bit more nuanced than that.

And so uh we we actually work very closely with a lot of SPV and fund leads.

And so, uh I we've had situations where we published a deal and then, you know, a GP uh of a fund will reach out to that founder uh saying, oh, we found you on RV Alliance and then they'll write a large check into them, which is great. We love that.

Anything that makes founders richer or faster, I'm all about that.

Um and so uh the other thing we do is if you're an SPV lead and or if you're leading an SPV and you want uh and you basically want uh we see this a lot with like emerging managers and emerging SPV leads.

The biggest challenge is building getting your getting yourself in front of an LP network. That's like the whole secret behind all of this.

So what we do is that, well, that thing that's really hard and expensive and terrible to do, we're just going to make it free.

And so if you as an SPV lead, if you are willing to wave the carry on your on your deal, you can actually submit your deal to us.

We will share it out just like any other deal and then what's really great is any of the LPs that come in, you now have direct access to those LPs.

So it's basically like instead of you having to do networking and coffee meetings and things like that, you can just audition by actually doing the work. Um and so you can like if you put out good deals, people will follow you.

And that that that actually kind of goes into another point in terms of like how we differentiate from a lot of the fund managers and syndicate leads out there, which I'm happy to get into.

Yeah, how how do you differentiate RV from um, you know, other fund managers? Yeah, so here's a great way to think about this. If you want to buy a share of Tesla stock, there's a couple ways you can do this.

One, you can just buy it for free on on Robin Hood. You pay no commission carry management fees to do that. You can invest in a mutual fund that owns Tesla. and you you're going to pay a little bit of load or fee for that.

You can invest in an ETF that owns Tesla. you're going to pay some asset management fee there. You can invest in a hedge fund that owns Tesla, you're going to pay two and 20.

You know, you got all these you can invest in a wealth manager and they're going to charge 140 basis points and you know, maybe you'll be investing in Tesla.

So there's all these different ways that you can get exposed to Tesla based on what level of advisory you're looking for.

Like you can go everything from like um me as a direct stock picker to like I don't ever want to think about this and I want to hire a manager to deal with it. And then I think that's totally legitimate. I think that's 100% how the market should work.

You shouldn't have to like you should you should pay for more levels of advisory work. Now, what I am 100% against is what I call access based fees.

So if you as an investor know you want to invest in something and you can't do it because access is restricted for some arbitrary reason or it requires, you know, like personal relationship, whatever, to me, this is the enemy.

So I call this access based carry. So I love advisory based carry. If you're a top tier fund and you you make, you know, those types of picks and people are hiring you for your advisory, great. Pay as much.

I think those might managers are actually under compensated. 2 and 20 is a bargain for the best managers. Uh like they should charge more.

But there's a there's like folks out there who are basically arbitrary arbitrarily gate uh keeping these deals because you can't like invest in them unless you charge pay a huge amount of fees or things like that. when it's like I don't need this person's advisory work.

I just want access to this deal.

So for example, if you want to invest in SpaceX, that's a whole like different thing because you're going to be investing in SPVs that pay like four levels of carry when like I don't need to be convinced in any way shape or form that SpaceX is a great investment.

Like I I don't think anyone on most people on planet Earth don't need to be convinced of that. They just want to be able to hit it on a buy button. So our philosophy is freedom of trade for all the same reasons as freedom of speech.

I mean, there are a lot of uh interesting points uh in terms of access that you brought there because arbitrary most private investments are restricted to accredit rules. uh which it shouldn't be because even can you know, go to casino and lose all their money.

I mean, there are plenty stocks listed on uh stock exchanges, you know, which which which go up and down by 90% plus in a day. Um, so it's a very arbitrary, you know, decision to restrict um, you know, private investing uh through accredit rule.

So, I think Angel list sort of uh played uh and you know, went and did the job sat to equity crowdfunding and then things started changing and even with rolling funds now you can actually publicize your private deals.

But there's still that restriction which limits access to a lot of people because, you know, how is a person with 190k uh you know salary is different from a person who's making 210.

Suddenly is not, you know, intelligent by leaps and bounds to understand private equity to invest in it, right? So, I think that's at the core, you know, which also prevents access to deals and sort of perpetuate this whole system.

Another interesting question that I thought of uh asking you is about, you know, how did Angel list react to this?

Um, because I I know there are some Angel list uh team members also in RV Alliance and they probably wouldn't have imagined uh someone like RV Alliance coming up and doing this sort of a thing. Yeah, that's a great question.

Uh so one we've I talk with them fairly often uh and I a huge fan of everything they've done in the space to accelerate things on the RV front and the fact that they're charging nothing for it except for blue sky fees, which are regulator imposed is mindboggling.

I mean this is this is a mind shattering thing that has uh been

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